Curse

RedStar · Oct 23, 2010, 02:02 PM // 14:02

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So you say that most of the keys being sold nowadays has been in the circulation since the early days of GW, aka no one actually uses up the keys but keeps them as a currency instead?
WTS basic observation and common logic.

>.<
No I meant that since the day that Zkeys was introduced people started selling them and other started buying them to open the chest. And now 2 years later (I think, not sure) there are even more buyer and even more sellers.

Oh forgot that the zaishen title wasn't introduced at the same time as Zkeys....so I'll rephrase my argument : since the day that title was created, more people sold and bought Zkeys than people who played PvP to obtain those keys and open the chest.

prinzess of life · Oct 23, 2010, 02:59 PM // 14:59

@redstar , when do you PvP people get it, this forum is not about winning or loesing with arguments, it's about making public your own opinion and my opinion is that a guild or player in that guild that has participated in 5507 GvG games and won 2722 of those diserves a recognition no matter if they won against a bad guild or a good guild. In your logic the highest ranked guild should not get points since they are obviously the best and always win against worse people than them , so why should they get points ?
Just the fact you won should reward you with 1 point, same as opening any high end chest gives you 1 point towards chest titel and id'ing any rare item gives you 1 point to wisdom titel. Any PvE titel is accesible to the whole playerbase but PvP titles are restricted to just a few. In the example of the Champion title at this moment in time only 150 guilds have a high enough rating to be able to earn champion points and most of them are inactive ao only a few 100 people are able to earn champion points, thats not fair !!!

Del · Oct 23, 2010, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

@redstar , when do you PvP people get it, this forum is not about winning or loesing with arguments, it's about making public your own opinion.

You done goofed. Not sure if you're developmentally impaired or not, so I'll try to be as tactful as possible.
1: It's a debate, the point is, in fact, to argue your point.
2: You make it sound as if pvpers are the entire population of people on guru that argue. But yes, in truth, as it is obvious to those lacking a developmental disability, both pvers and pvpers argue, get over it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

and my opinion is that a guild or player in that guild that has participated in 5507 GvG games and won 2722 of those diserves a recognition no matter if they won against a bad guild or a good guild. In your logic the highest ranked guild should not get points since they are obviously the best and always win against worse people than them , so why should they get points ?

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad. The fact that guilds have to get into champ range deters syncing, and makes it harder for guilds to farm/sell champ points. Also keeps them from tanking their rating till they get matched against bad players to farm.

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Originally Posted by prinzess of life

Any PvE titel is accesible to the whole playerbase but PvP titles are restricted to just a few.

PvP is not PvE. Why should pvp titles work the same way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

In the example of the Champion title at this moment in time only 150 guilds have a high enough rating to be able to earn champion points and most of them are inactive ao only a few 100 people are able to earn champion points, thats not fair !!!

In a recent study, it was proven that 100% of the people that pull bad statistics out of their asses are twits.

tazer · Oct 23, 2010, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Aside from all (in)justice speculations: you can have r3 Zaishen with absolutely no FB (that is ZERO) and just because of this little fact, the title should not be counted for PvP.
PvP gamers (that it those and only those that should be recognised by PvP statues in HoM) will earn other eligible PvP titles anyway, so no harm for them anyway.
And any other players that won't... well, they are no PvP gamers then and therefore should not be recognised as them in their HoMs, as simple as that.

RedStar · Oct 23, 2010, 04:02 PM // 16:02

And when will people get that PvE and PvP aren't ways of life ?
I've spend more than 75% of time in PvE and I'm 100 points away from glad r3. I just find it abnormal to get a title that supposedly shows that you have played every aspect of the game yet refuse to set foot in one of the battle isles arena (looking for a group/guild for 10 minutes doesn't even count).

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this forum is not about winning or loesing with arguments,

It's about debating on a subject. And to have a good debate you choose good non biased arguments.

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Any PvE titel is accesible to the whole playerbase but PvP titles are restricted to just a few. In the example of the Champion title at this moment in time only 150 guilds have a high enough rating to be able to earn champion points and most of them are inactive ao only a few 100 people are able to earn champion points, thats not fair !!!

Is it the game's fault or the players fault ?
3 years ago it didn't bothered anyone because people actually played GvG. Now only few people do it, so only a few guilds have a rating above 1200 and it's because people don't want to play GvG.
For all we know that guild you mentioned could have been a training guild (new members join that guild, participate in a lot of GvG and when they are good enough they leave that guild and join the real GvG guild. A lot of alliances used to have those).
Anyways with only 156 guilds with a rating above 1200, everyone agrees that something must be done to draw more player to playing GvG and not change how the champion title works.

Some will say that it's the game fault because there aren't enough good skill updates but in the end it's the players that don't want to play.

If henchmen and heroes weren't available in PvE the same complain could occur (They are available in GvG and HA too, but you can't form a team of henchmen...and really...do you even want to take a henchmen...).

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In your logic the highest ranked guild should not get points since they are obviously the best and always win against worse people than them , so why should they get points ?

Both guilds need to have a rating of 1200. Think of it as a way for lower (and inexperienced) guilds to not get "farmed" by higher (and normally more experienced) guilds.

jazilla · Oct 23, 2010, 04:50 PM // 16:50

If anything, it's pretty obvious that this is a really polarizing topic. I just wish I could have been a fly on the wall at the meeting where they decided to have the z-title be a PvP title. It would be easier to deduce how it was allowed if I could see A-Net employees HoM Calculators

I really have a feeling that the topic is just as polarizing for them as it is for us. The Z-Title as PvP title would ensure that they all had a crack at 50/50 as I would imagine a big chunk of their staff detests PvP.

prinzess of life · Oct 23, 2010, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

You done goofed. Not sure if you're developmentally impaired or not, so I'll try to be as tactful as possible.
1: It's a debate, the point is, in fact, to argue your point.
2: You make it sound as if pvpers are the entire population of people on guru that argue. But yes, in truth, as it is obvious to those lacking a developmental disability, both pvers and pvpers argue, get over it.

Do you have a problem with developmentally impaired people ?
- I suggest a few hours social work in a home for developmentally impaired people instead of playing video games could change your mind. You are the one who should feel bad.

On topic again, well said PvE is not PvP and thats why there should be PvE rewards and PvP rewards and A-net was wrong puting both type of players in one bowl. PvPers diserve getting rewards for their work , they should get diffrent items and diffrent titels to PvEers , for each rank they have in one of the PvP titels they could get additional items that PvEer dont get. So let the best overall PvPer get the highest reward and people who just touched PvP by geting the absolute minimum (i.e. Gladiator rank3 ) get a reward reflecting exaclty this.

Del · Oct 24, 2010, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

Do you have a problem with developmentally impaired people ?
- I suggest a few hours social work in a home for developmentally impaired people instead of playing video games could change your mind. You are the one who should feel bad.

I have no problem with the mentally deficient(as long as i don't have to read their feeble arguments on guru).

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

On topic again, well said PvE is not PvP and thats why there should be PvE rewards and PvP rewards and A-net was wrong puting both type of players in one bowl. PvPers diserve getting rewards for their work , they should get diffrent items and diffrent titels to PvEers , for each rank they have in one of the PvP titels they could get additional items that PvEer dont get. So let the best overall PvPer get the highest reward and people who just touched PvP by geting the absolute minimum (i.e. Gladiator rank3 ) get a reward reflecting exaclty this.

Yeah, sure, novel idea. But this is not about how much pve your play in gw1, nor how much pvp you played. It's a measure of how much guildwars you play. And the fact that you don't have to play any pvp whatsoever to get 50/50 is a sham.

Pritst Of Death · Oct 24, 2010, 01:29 AM // 01:29

i'm actually still not sure what his argument really is i feel like he keeps rambelling on and on about the same post and same topics when he's already been proved wrong by more than one person

hitsuji182 · Oct 24, 2010, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Probably all obvious points were considered in this thread, so i just simply...

/signed this idea.

Essence Snow · Oct 24, 2010, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Everyone should have to play every proffession through every campaign/quest/area and and in every catagory of PvP for 50/50....is this what ya'll mean by exp. every aspect of the game?..B/C that's truely it...if not...plz come on.....no room to say otherwise. Don't use that as an arguement.

*lemming* · Oct 24, 2010, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Everyone should have to play every proffession through every campaign/quest/area and and in every catagory of PvP for 50/50....is this what ya'll mean by exp. every aspect of the game?..B/C that's truely it...if not...plz come on.....no room to say otherwise. Don't use that as an arguement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Essence Snow · Oct 24, 2010, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Let me quote it for ya then.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwchang

That's fine. No one is FORCING them to PvP. What players are saying is that if you want 50/50, a title that implies you are competent in all aspects of the game, you should have to EARN the PvP trophy via...PvP.

Twas not what u thought

prinzess of life · Oct 24, 2010, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pritst Of Death

i'm actually still not sure what his argument really is i feel like he keeps rambelling on and on about the same post and same topics when he's already been proved wrong by more than one person

If you are not sure what i'm saying i say it again. From my point of view.
- I have done Random Arena & Team Arena befor and after the Gladiator titel got introduced.
- In one of the first guilds i was we did GvG without ever getting a rating above 1200 because even with +80 ppl we could never manage to have the same core ppl doing it , diffrent timezones , work...yes some GW players have a Real Life.
- I have done over 80% of my Luxon Savior titel in AB befor A-net decided to cheapen that titel by introducing methodes like Speeed clears and doubling up the factions
-I participated in all kind of festival games.
-I did hero battles without RR days
The only method to prove all this is the over 3 million baltasar points i earned , i have only done zaishen elite trapping once and i think thats cheatting!! So i never did that again.

Now People here keep saying it's about having done PvP , it's about having steped foot into every aspect of the game .... i have done all that. Everything on that HoM calculator is doable by just playing the game, you don't need to be an expert at it. Every single PvE titel has been cheapened. Has anyone done vainquishing or elite missions befor they introduced consets? If you have you know how i feel about how easy they made those titels attainable for everyone.
Every PvE titel got handed out on a plate. The PvP titels are all as hard to earn as befor , and the gladiator titel is even harder to earn now since they removed Team Arena.

So A-Net decided to make the Zaishen titel a PvP titel, it's not my fault some people bought the titel , i'm not happy about that either, but i don't mind them geting 50/50 this way , they have to live with it that they "cheated the system" by geting a PvP titel by not doing PvP. (In my opinion there should be no Zaishen titel but a Balthasar faction titel that takes into account the factions you earned over time)

As for the person called "Del" , stop insulting people you don't know. An even if i was mentaly deficient , what does that have to do in this forum. If you want to speak out your feelings about medical subjects go on a medical forum.

RedStar · Oct 24, 2010, 01:06 PM // 13:06

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competent in all aspects of the game

That doesn't mean that you have the time to click on an inventory icon ten thousand times or that you have the time to search for every single quests, go kill the quest's objective and come back for your reward. Just like it doesn't mean that you need to have a maxed PvP title.

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A-net was wrong puting both type of players in one bowl.

No they weren't. Since day one they wanted people to be able to play both sides of this game. Then time passed and PvE and PvP started to appear as 2 different and incompatible way of life...

Let's forget for a few seconds AB/FA/JQ.
You didn't do enough consecutive wins in RA to get Glad r3. If you are not happy then go and do them.
You don't see someone saying "I vanquished 10 areas in Elona so I should be able to put the statue in my HoM" (and if you do...then that person wants to one day log into their account and find a stack of armbraces).

I completely fail to understand the hatred that some players have towards RA/HA/GvG. Sure you find a lot of a*******, just like in PvE and also like PvE you can find fun peoples.

And all of those that are against making the zaishen title a PvE title just hate PvP (don't give me a BS excuse like "I like those arenas, I'm fighting for those that don't"...).

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The PvP titels are all as hard to earn as befor

IWAY, SWAY, Ranger way, *insert almost anything*-way. All of those "cheap" team builds for HA to quickly earn fame because they aren't that hard to use or all of those sins and rangers build in RA that ANet had to nerf every update, all of those things make those title faster. They are easy to use and can be annoying to counter.
A PvP title may seem hard to obtain, but with the right build, it's just a matter of time and a tiny bit of luck. Just like you go on the wiki to do some research about the area or mission you are going to do, go on the forums to see what the builds are right now...(and if you don't go on the wiki for those reasons because you consider it "cheating" well good for you, you can also try to create your own build. But you will soon realize that every half good build has been posted. There is also so much "good" builds that can be created : take a profession, put a rez signet, choose an elite, choose skills that will go well with that elite => tada you have a build that has already been created (except for 1 or 2 skills) or you have a build that sucks).

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Every single PvE titel has been cheapened.

Even if they have been cheapened, they still have to be done the same way : you still need to kill every monsters, to explore every areas, to get every missions and bonuses. Yet for the zaishen title you don't even need to have obtained ONE Balthazar point, you can simply buy 200 keys.
(For sweet tooth, party animal and ale hound you need to buy the items, if you buy time from players or from an NPC, it's the same thing. And before you give a completely impossible example of "buying 10 000 unidentified gold" well you need to have to cash to do it, so you have to farm, and unless you are completely unlucky, you are bound to have identified a few gold items).

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- I have done over 80% of my Luxon Savior titel in AB

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i never did speed clears at all don't tell me i didn't do enough PvP to diserve it.

Wait...you either did the last 20% by FA (not JQ, let's not lie that much) or you kind of lied to back up your statement.

dwchang · Oct 24, 2010, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

The only method to prove all this is the over 3 million baltasar points i earned , i have only done zaishen elite trapping once and i think thats cheatting!! So i never did that again.

Now People here keep saying it's about having done PvP , it's about having steped foot into every aspect of the game .... i have done all that.

Honestly in your situation I think the title for PvP should have been something much simpler like having to earn a certain amount of balthazar's faction, but the problem with that is you *can* farm Balth Faction thus making for the same set of problems we have here (i.e. people not truly earning the title).

I realize you're a special case and thus deserve credit, but I honestly don't know what the "perfect" solution is. As I've said (many times now), many of us are arguing this from a principle standpoint and fully know nothing will change since too many people will be (rightfully) pissed having spent so much money. The only thing that annoys us (well at least me) is people not even acknowledging that the "PvP title" is a joke and not representative of what A.net was aiming for or this arrogant sense of entitlement like they deserve vanity titles even though they haven't truly earned it. On that, it looks like you and I can agree. It's a shame 50/50 on the HoM could not have been made into something more meaningful that could actually be respected in GW2.

Pritst Of Death · Oct 25, 2010, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by prinzess of life

If you are not sure what i'm saying i say it again. From my point of view.
- I have done Random Arena & Team Arena befor and after the Gladiator titel got introduced.
- In one of the first guilds i was we did GvG without ever getting a rating above 1200 because even with +80 ppl we could never manage to have the same core ppl doing it , diffrent timezones , work...yes some GW players have a Real Life.
- I have done over 80% of my Luxon Savior titel in AB befor A-net decided to cheapen that titel by introducing methodes like Speeed clears and doubling up the factions
-I participated in all kind of festival games.
-I did hero battles without RR days
The only method to prove all this is the over 3 million baltasar points i earned , i have only done zaishen elite trapping once and i think thats cheatting!! So i never did that again.

the same can be said for me for all the above but i've have not done ra enough for a title and i speed cleared most my titles for luxon and kruz but after maxing it i've done enough jq to put another 21 mill on luxon and 5 mill on kruz, i got r4 commander but playing legit. and yes i have a real life full time student and work 30+ hours a week and i have 6 mill on my balth faction so with all the being said so what. i can compare everything you've done but it don't change anything and your not the only one who has done things like that. and some of us don't like having out pvp titles cheapned. maybe your cool with the only reward for all your ha and ta and ra and hb as a extra 5k for your balth cap but some of us want more than that and having pve'ers earn it with only 150e is unfair and that the point your not seaming to grasp

Hobbs · Oct 26, 2010, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Meh...billions of gold has changed hands in order for people to get this title as PvP title. I don't imagine ANet will change it now.

Pritst Of Death · Oct 26, 2010, 06:36 AM // 06:36

they banned people for botting in pvp, because the main reason was it upset the pvp'ers and made the game unfair. isn't this what were upset about. it's unfair and there not working for the title

Swingline · Oct 26, 2010, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

If anything, it's pretty obvious that this is a really polarizing topic. I just wish I could have been a fly on the wall at the meeting where they decided to have the z-title be a PvP title. It would be easier to deduce how it was allowed if I could see A-Net employees HoM Calculators

I really have a feeling that the topic is just as polarizing for them as it is for us. The Z-Title as PvP title would ensure that they all had a crack at 50/50 as I would imagine a big chunk of their staff detests PvP.

Most gws players detest raw pvp such as HA and GvG bc the super hardcore pvpers take it way too seriously(I cant stress the serious part enough). Any casual pvper cannot match them bc they make gws pvp into a job when instead it should be as anet intended it to be... fun. This is why I think they made the decision to make zaishen title into a pvp title and also for ppl to be able to buy it.